This week in Nothing Without Us, I speak to Laura Nwanya, abuot her experience of having three children, while pursuing her career in primary education.
Passionate about staff wellbeing and retaining incredible teachers in the profession, Laura knows a huge part of that is craeting family friendly schools - which has been vital for her success as a mother and a leader. We hope you love listening to this episode.
She is about to embark on the next stage of her career as deputy head and will be supporting the MTPT project by volunteering to schedule posts on Twitter.
You can find her @being_willow
A full transcript of this episode can be found at https://nothing-without-us.simplecast.com/episodes/lived-experience-laura-nwanya
Nothing Without Us is presented by Angie Browne from Being Luminary.
It is edited by Big Tent Media and produced by Emily Crosby Media.
Sign up for our weekly email series, Strategy Sundays. Emails go out every Sunday, offering you the chance to get to grips with one tangible piece of change around equity in your organisation. You can sign up here
https://beingluminary.myflodesk.com/mnl0u3o8gd
Laura Nwanya 00:00
When I first started my teaching career, that was a huge, huge agenda about considering Every Child Matters. There is no child that we must forget about in our class, we need to make sure every single person is supported and making progress. But I felt like I was being asked to do that, but forgetting the needs of my own child.
Angie Browne 00:21
You are listening to Nothing Without Us, a podcast for the equity committed and the equity curious, for the leaders and shakers who have dreamed a world, and in that world equity is a tangible reality. I'm Angie Browne, an equity strategist with over 20 years in the field, and each week, I will guide you through topics and conversations that touch on equity, fairness, ethics and social justice. In every episode, you'll have the chance to get equity conscious.
Angie Browne 00:53
Welcome back to the podcast. Really delighted to welcome as my guest for this episode, a teacher who's working in London called Laura Nwanya. Laura, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for making the time.
Laura Nwanya 01:09
Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Angie Browne 01:12
Laura, can we start off, just can I just ask you to introduce yourself, just tell us who you are, what kind of context you work in. Just give us a bit of a flavour.
Laura Nwanya 01:22
So my name is Laura Nwanya. I have three children, 20, 6 and one years old. I've been a senior leader in primary education in Enfield for coming into my seventh year now. So yeah, that's a little bit about me, really, I'm passionate about teacher wellbeing, and how to retain incredible teachers in the profession for a variety of reasons. I think at the moment, we are in a recruitment and retention crisis. And it's so important that we find ways to support people and key experienced teachers in the field.
Angie Browne 02:03
You're primary, does that mean you teach all years or year groups? Or do you have a particular particular group that you'd love to work with?
Laura Nwanya 02:12
Year six? Last year before secondary, I think that was always before I went into senior leadership. That was I was always a year six class teacher, I dipped down to your five for a little bit. And then I went back up to year six again. I feel that's where my strength is. But in my role as deputy head now it's across the whole of the primary freight bays. Yeah.
Angie Browne 02:33
Okay, great. And you work in London? Have you always worked in London schools?
Laura Nwanya 02:38
Yep, I did my training outside in a tiny, tiny village school. Then I moved into London for my family, and went to a four form entry school. So it was a bit of a shock to start off with. But I've always typically worked in four form by form entry schools.
Angie Browne 03:01
I often talk to people who work in London schools, and they feel like they couldn't go and work outside of London. I'm always really interested in the London context. It really gets people.
Laura Nwanya 03:10
It really does once you're in it, I think there's a slight fear around it. Yeah, the bad press. They people say that children are not very well behaved, or yeah, there's lots of different needs. And I'm sure there is some there's a high amount of disadvantaged children and things. But on the whole, once you're in, there's a love for it, that you can't walk away from it. And I don't think it is necessarily more difficult to work in London schools. I think you get an incredible range of children in your classroom that you wouldn't necessarily get outside of the M 25. And further on, you can bring you can bring those different cultures into the classroom and really learn from it. And that's what I find incredible about the inside London.
Angie Browne 03:58
Yeah, yeah, I completely get that. Okay, so I've put you on the podcast because we're having a season at the moment where we're looking at the state, if you like, of maternity leave of the city, kind of protected characteristic of pregnancy and maternity always interests me because it's one that I think schools often feel that they probably get right. They feel like oh, race, we're not doing that very well, or sexual orientation that's more challenging or gender is really difficult. But pregnancy and maternity it well, you know, it's about our teachers, and we're probably getting it right. And the more and more I dig into it, the more and more I find that practice is really not favourable for so many teachers,
Laura Nwanya 04:40
Not just in terms of maternity, paternity. Yeah, horrendous. So I think I've seen some really wonderful colleagues having to go off their wife's first second child, and they're back in school within a week. Some of them are to be yes, yeah. Yeah, a really challenging time.
Angie Browne 05:00
And so it's actually pregnancy, maternity, paternity and understandings of shared parental leave and how and how that looks. I was reading a story about the state of maternity leave, generally, in the UK. And the story was referring to two reports, one undertaken by maternity action and the other undertaken by pregnant, then screwed. And then we're both looking at how in the UK, so many people are being forced to return to work much sooner than they would really like to. And that kind of just got me thinking about reflecting back on my own maternity leave, and my decision to return to school. And I put it out there to you know, the maternity teacher paternity teacher projects that I was looking for somebody to talk to about their experience. And you kindly said, Yes, I'll come and talk about my experience. But can we? Can we get back to your sort of decision as a teacher to actually have children? Do you remember thinking about it being easier or harder as a teacher? When you were thinking about planning a family? What was your, what was your thinking around it?
Laura Nwanya 06:09
So I think we should go back even further, when I had my first child, my daughter, who's 20, at the moment, I wasn't a teacher, I was a youth offending team officer. And I found that I was working a lot of the time in the summer holidays, I was having to put her into child care. And I just remember my husband now saying, you're really good with children, if you ever considered being a teacher, because that would then mean that I could have my busy terms, but I would have my summer holidays with her. And you're never too far away from spending that quality time. So originally got into teaching, thinking that it would be what suited the needs of my family. And it did for that short time. But I feel that as my workload increased, it was actually very challenging. And I realised that during term time, the days was so long and so intense, much more so than I had had in my previous careers. But then, obviously, starting my family. Now, it seemed, it has got his its advantages to it, in terms of if you can find the right child care and things. But I would say I originally got into teaching because it's suited.
Angie Browne 07:27
Do you remember how you were thinking about it in terms of whether you felt was going to be easy or difficult as a as a teacher?
Laura Nwanya 07:35
I remember thinking it would be, it would be challenging in terms of costs. But there was a certain thing about timing. When was I going to have the baby? Where would it be suited in terms of meeting that financial side of Yeah, for example, I had miles my youngest right at the beginning of the summer holidays, which was so frustrating, because then it meant that I was getting eaten into my maternity when I would have been paid for time anyway. Yeah. And if I had known what I know now, about teachers shared parental leave, the ways that you can just tweak it slightly to put yourself in a financial advantage, then I would have been able to have longer off than I did, because I wasn't aware that there were those companies or charities out there to support me with that.
Angie Browne 08:30
Yeah, yeah. When you went into your school, how long have you been working in your school, when you found out you're pregnant?
Laura Nwanya 08:38
So when I had Eden, I'd been working. He's my six year old. I've been working in the school for five years. And he was due at the end of March. So I worked until 38 weeks, but I only had four months off with him. The reason being is my pay had gone down to 50% By that point, 50% plus SMP. And then I realised that if I would just go back for the last couple of weeks of the summer term, it meant then I could be paid throughout that summer holiday as well. I see. Financially, it didn't make sense to stay off. And then return in September, because I say full time pay.
Angie Browne 09:22
Yeah, I see. So you went into when you found out you're pregnant, you went into school, and you and you said you're pregnant. Can I just ask you just go back a step. What was the response from your school when you told them that you were pregnant?
Laura Nwanya 09:35
They were actually great that school. I think they were amazing with it. I was concerned as well because I found out I was pregnant. Very early stages. I found out I was pregnant in the August and I knew I was going into your sixth and I was leading your sixth. The you feel guilt for your class because you know that you're going to go off before their SATs in May That is such a crucial thing for year six. And I wanted to be honest with my senior leadership team at the time, I felt had a really good relationship with them. And so in September, even though it was only maybe it's six or seven weeks, I said, I have to be honest, I am pregnant. And I want to let you know that because you might want to think about where you put me or if that changes anything. And I remember the head teacher at the time saying, she knew I loved GSX she knew that was my baby. And that's where I wanted. And she said, It's fine, we appreciate you being nice, we will keep you in year six, and we'll work it out, then the support and the kindness, the warmth that she showed me was amazing. And I prepared as much as I could I supported with the transition from me being there to not being there. They were, they were great. And it worked out the children. And they got the results, they deserved.
Angie Browne 11:00
That thank you for just drawing attention to that dilemma that so many teachers feel that they're about to share some of the most exciting news like for lots of people who've got pregnancies that they found all that they want, they're really excited about it, and they go into work, and they want to share it. But as a teacher, there's always that but I'm responsible for you 11, but I'm responsible for but I'm responsible for your six, but I'm responsible for whatever it is that kind of can cloud the initial, yet, I have to share and to you know, to feel excited about something exactly.
Laura Nwanya 11:35
And because they say they advise and actually, this is, this might be quite hard for some people to hear I'm going to talk about I had a missed miscarriage in between. I was teaching your six. And I found out I was pregnant in the I think April or the May time, I then went to my leadership team again. And I said I'm I'm pregnant. Again, I'm really excited about this, I just want to let you know, because I know it was the time that they would decide where all of the teachers were. And that meant me going off in February, January, February time. So I went to them that I know that I don't have to tell you this, but I want to tell you, I want to be honest, this might impact where you put me and they did put me down into year five, which was fine. I was in five team, I was happy with that because I thought I would only be there for a term. And then I went to have my 12 week scan in the July at the end of term. And there was no heartbeat. And it seemed that the pregnancy had stopped around about 10 weeks, and my body just hadn't picked up on it. So I had to have an operation and go through that process. And I remember going into my head teacher and saying, Please put me back in your six. I'm not even pregnant anymore. That's where I really want to be. And she was really good. She was very supportive. They gave me all the time that I needed to process things. And she just said you will fall pregnant again, you will have this and because they had let the parents know who the class were and where the staff in was. It meant that I did have to go into year five. It turned out fine. I had the best year I really enjoyed time that I had with the new team. But it's a it's a tricky area, isn't it? Because you want to be honest. You don't have to be honest, then when you are when you do say these things, you then I then had to go in and share that news that I don't think I would have done if I hadn't already told them I was pregnant.
Angie Browne 13:43
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you're kind of pushed in a way in this sector to divulge before you might be ready to because you also feel that twinge responsibility for the children that you're teaching all the all the infrastructure of the organisation and like how it's able to organise itself is so interesting, because I think about that moment when I found out I was pregnant. I was actually applying for jobs. I wanted to become a head teacher. And so I've been applying it was my second headship actually I was applying for for a second headship. So it wasn't really happy where I was. And I got an interview. Just as I'd find out, I was pregnant. Well, I think it was a couple of months pregnant. And I felt like I had to tell them at interview that I because it was a headship interview that I'm pregnant. Yeah, the school wasn't gonna be opening at that point, that I couldn't start as early as it was a new school that I couldn't start as early as they would need. And I was thinking, thinking back on that and just remembering it made me think if I'd been in a different sector, I would have kept that early pregnancy to myself.
Laura Nwanya 14:50
Yeah. What happened? Did you get the role?
Angie Browne 14:53
I actually did get the role. So the honesty really didn't impact upon me not being but basically I've got the I had the first interview. And then I said, I wrote to them before I had the results of the first interview. So I said, if I'm progressed to the next stage of interviews, I need you to know that I'm pregnant. And I just got it out of the way. And then they wrote back and said, I mean, it's a bit of a rock and a hard place for an institution because they can't legally say that they're not going to, if they were planning to interview, I think it's quite difficult for them to get out of it. But they could have found a way of saying that I hadn't made it through the first day.
Laura Nwanya 15:29
Yes, somebody's got more experience.
Angie Browne 15:32
And then I got to the second stage, got through that interview, and then and then was appointed. And I was appointed in the full knowledge that I was going to be a new mum, as well. So I started work. Four months after my son was born. In a second headship,
Laura Nwanya 15:49
it really is possible, though, isn't it, to have that career that you want to be a parent,
Angie Browne 15:55
it is possible, I think it is possible to have the conversations with people who are going to be humane, who are going to talk to you as though you're another human being that ultimately, is bringing another child into the world who ultimately will go to a school where ultimately all our wages are paid from. So I always feel like there's a circle of life here. It involves people having children and being, you know, enabled to step out of the workplace for a moment, however long that moment is to have a child. So your school were great. They were good about about Matt, leave, and then you went on that leave? In what point with your,
Laura Nwanya 16:33
say, with Eden or my six year old? Yeah. So I went onto my mat leave at 38 weeks. So just at the beginning of March targeting of March. Okay. And then I returned in July, and then returned in July and your work those last few weeks? Yeah, last two weeks, to get my pay over the summer holiday.
Angie Browne 16:55
Okay, got it. So while you're on maternity leave, what was the keeping in touch? Like, what how did the school manage that?
Laura Nwanya 17:03
So I was actually moving schools during that time, but it was within my trust. Still, I went from one primary school to another primary school in London. So it was like moving roles almost. But in order for me to move and to be closer to my home, I had worked with the head teacher of the new school Previously, she was my line manager before. And I approached her and said, I know that you're still within our trust. I'd really like to be closer to home. Is there anything that you could offer me whilst I'm yeah, when I come back from maternity, and there wasn't a post that was on the same level, I had to take a step back and become a class teacher. But I was prepared to do that, in order to it was the thinking of the logistics of childcare and drop offs and time and how much time I could save. And then eventually, I became an assistant head of that school anyway, so just had to step back for a bit in order to then move my career forward again.
Angie Browne 18:13
Okay. So the return to work in July. And your baby was four months old.
Laura Nwanya 18:19
Yes.
Angie Browne 18:20
Tell me about that experience.
Laura Nwanya 18:22
I think in all honesty, I was ready. My career is a huge part of my identity. I love my job. I love working in schools. I love being able to support other teachers as well. I was ready for that time. And I knew as well I was only going back for two weeks. And then I had six weeks off again. Yeah, I could rest knowing that I was getting full pay again. Yeah, husband I we were saving for our first mortgage, which is so hard anywhere but being in London as well we private renting, trying to get on the housing ladder to get some stability for our family because our rent was going up each year, then I felt that I could be a better parent knowing that I was back at work and bringing in an income than if I was to stay at home and actually found are spending more money because I'm at home every day. And I'd be going out having a little walk and it'll be a coffee or a cake. Yeah. Whereas if I was at work I was spending less too.
Angie Browne 19:26
Yeah, yeah. And so there's there's a couple of a few things that I'd quite like to unpack so one of them is that knowing that you were going to have an additional six weeks alleviated a guest some of the kind of okay, you'll It sounds quite nice I think for me to go to work I don't get to be you know, have that have that nice, warm British summer. The other thing is that the find that there is a question mark over finances always I really, really want to be able to get us onto the housing ladder, the quicker I could do that. At, the quicker I can become the kind of parent that I really, really want to be. Yeah. And then also the self concept piece, which I think is so interesting. So so many people return to work, because their career is really important to them. I was definitely one of those people. And I want to ask you, I didn't if you thought about this, but if it was a given that parents were off work for a year, and it was fully paid. And and that was, regardless of the situation if it was just a given, if that was a kind of cultural norm. How soon do you think you would want to go back to work? And in what format that would you? Would you have wanted to go back? After four months? Regardless, would you? How would it have influenced your decision making? Do you think?
Laura Nwanya 20:46
I think I always need to be working on some sort of projects. Yeah, I need to know that I'm contributing to something somewhere, I have to have a purpose. Yeah. But I think it would have afforded me the flexibility to do some things that work, you get more of a balance of maybe doing a morning baby group, and then coming back and working on something in the afternoon. So in this latest maternity, I remember I was just in shower at miles was two weeks old. And I was like, I need a project, I need something to do, I knew I was going to be off for longer with Miles, it was seven months. And I thought I can't be doing this for seven months, I need to work. So I started up my beam Willow podcast, my website, which is all about supporting other teachers. And it comes back to that recruitment and retention and empowering teachers to know that they are incredible at their jobs. They are incredible at what they do. And because we feel that we get to the end of the day, and we haven't met all of those things on the list, we feel that we're not doing a good job, and we are. So even if I was to be paid full time for a year, I think I'd find a way of putting my energy into something else, and then very being a full time parent. But I would get more of a balance. I think what I really miss is the morning walk to school. That's something that I'm envious of that I don't get to do that morning walk to have those little chats to do drop off and communicate with other parents in the same way. You can't have playdates or children round for tea after school. Yeah, all of those things. Yeah, you could get more of a balance with that if you have the pay.
Angie Browne 22:36
Yeah.
Angie Browne 22:38
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Angie Browne 22:59
That moment when you kind of, I guess, make the decision to go back to work is interesting. And I think if it's driven, driven by finances, we often don't give ourselves the opportunity to say if this wasn't driven by finances, what was my decision? It might be that it was exactly the same but I I recognise it for so many people finances just push the agenda. So it's not even worth thinking about whether it would take more time.
Laura Nwanya 23:23
Yeah, I would never, I would need to have that income regularly. And what would actually frustrate me, I remember when I went off and I was thinking about it, even if I could just return part time. But I couldn't. I had to return full time because when you work in a school, I tried it for a little while, where I had my Wednesday's off. And I found that I was doing so much work on the Tuesday and the Tuesday evening, in order to cover my class for that was that it wasn't worth it. For me. It wasn't worth it financially. And even on the Wednesday when I was at home with Eden. I literally did this for about six weeks and realised it wasn't working. Yeah, I would be. And maybe that was a little bit on me. I could have turned off my emails. But I found that I was supporting the people covering my class so much that I might as well have been better at being paid for that extra day anyway. Yeah. Or I was coming back on the Thursday and the work wasn't quite as it needed to be. I think it's having to come back five days as well to make sure that you've got that income because otherwise you end up spending that time doing it elsewhere anyway, it doesn't come down to 80% work. You're still doing the work in that time.
Angie Browne 24:45
Yeah. So as somebody that's really it really loves their job and he's passionate about working in schools. He didn't have a kind of about returning from maternity leave in terms of thinking, Oh, I hate my job or I don't like teaching or you know some people might be teachers who just teach but they don't actually love the idea of going back to school you didn't have that experience? Can I ask them about the both physiological and also psychological space that you are in? Even though you really like returning to work? Was there anything about returning at four months that you recognise when you look back? was a little early in terms of physic, like physically, physically, having a baby is quite a big thing.
Laura Nwanya 25:29
I think this the experiences of the two was so different. Yeah. With even going back at four months, mentally, I was driven by the financial side of the house, I needed to get the house and I knew there was a certain timeline. Yeah, my husband and I were getting older. But I was exhausted, you know, they can't quite believe that you've got through that time. When you think, how on earth did I function? How on earth did I actually survive that, but I just powered through I was very organised, on my weekends to make my weekdays a lot easier.
Angie Browne 26:07
Can you just tell me what that means? Because people here very organised and they don't really know what you did, like, give me a give me a window into your what used to do to get organised
Laura Nwanya 26:15
and I think I'm so annoying, but you
Angie Browne 26:18
no what they're not they're gonna think that it's really normalising for what it actually takes to go back to work after four months.
Laura Nwanya 26:24
Okay, so I would food prep. When Eden was having his nap, because he was still having a daily nap. I would food prep, and I would freeze my meals for the week. Just so that on those busy days, I always had something in the background, I would prepare his bags for the week. All of his clothes. I was so naughty. What I did do in order to survive. And I remember might one of my friends still brings this up. I would put Eden to sleep in his clothes for the next morning. Yes, it wouldn't be a job. It would be in his outfit for nursery so that I just had to do the nappy change and get out. So after bath time. I was like, well, they nap Yeah. Anyway, don't get it overnight. And then I would organise my own clothes as well. And yeah, I've outfits put out for the week. I enjoyed getting my lessons planned on a Sunday evening, I didn't begrudge given up that time. Because I knew that the more organised I was, the better. I could manage behaviour and stuff in class. And there would be less issues to deal with, I think. So it was mainly food prep in getting organised and washed. And getting my clothes and things sorted out sorted. And also my week planned out in my head was in the good sleeper. No. And Miles is even worse. Miles is still horrendous. But my husband is great. He's a huge shootable He's better at the baby stage. He loves the baby stage. I sort of come into my own when they come from about three years old. Yeah. Great. So he gets up just as much as I do in the night.
Angie Browne 28:10
Yeah. And I think that's sort of that factor of that there are there are a few things out there around the the sort of psychological of if your child sleeps, then I love you. And yeah, I wish I was you. And if your child doesn't sleep that well, then you do have those days where you look or chapters where you look back and think how did I work?
Laura Nwanya 28:38
Somebody else you'd speak to that I sleep through through and I'm thinking what am I doing wrong? I'm Yeah, right out. I'm doing everything that I think I should be doing and just got it nailed. There's another sleep regression. I feel like every time I'd google it, there's a sleep regression every month when they actually sleep. Yeah, that was hard.
Angie Browne 29:02
Yeah. Yeah. You said that that you mentioned that there was a different sort of physically and psychologically between the two your two pregnancies or returns to what what what would you say the difference was?
Laura Nwanya 29:12
So by the time we had miles, we had actually bought our first house. So we were not trying to save up that huge posit. It was just a case of can we pay the mortgage? Not can we pay them and save 1000 pound a month in order to go towards a mortgage? That's why I felt that I could take the seven months off instead, four months off, but it still there is no way I would have been able to go down to just SMP, the other thing that happened was my grandma died and left me some money. So that meant I could use that money up after four months where there was a big cut in my head. And I used that money to pay my mortgage each month as well. I find that quite sad that somebody has passed away in order for me to be able to afford that time. But I didn't. I wasn't as financially stressed as I was when I had Eden.
Angie Browne 30:15
Yeah. So seven months felt a bit more spacious. And what are your thoughts I've been reading about. And we've actually we're going to have an episode on decolonizing maternity leave, I didn't really ever think about and I find it difficult when I look back on my maternity leave to think about the physical impact. But I did return to work four months after I had my child. And I do think when they talk about you know how long it takes for the bones to heal properly in the body to heal properly. It's a whole nother trimester.
Laura Nwanya 30:49
Yeah,
Angie Browne 30:49
I was at work during that.
Laura Nwanya 30:51
I think age has a massive impact on the first when I was 19. Yeah, I could handle those nights, I could still go to uni, and I had my work and I was fine. My body was fine. I then had Eden in my early 30s. And it was harder, but having miles close to 40. Yeah, I've really noticed a massive difference in terms of my memory, my brain fog, and just physically how exhausted I am as well. It's taken my I would say now a year and a half. I'm still recovering physically. Yes. Having miles, whereas I wasn't like that with Eden. Yeah, so maybe having that extra few months off, was helpful. I don't think I could have returned after four months with miles.
Angie Browne 31:44
That's so important to recognise that not every woman who's having a child is at the same season, in terms of the light life, her own life arc. So what we do, and I, you know, I know that when I talk to schools about things like this, they say, Yeah, but it's like really overcomplicated. We can't tailor everything for everybody. The question is always why because I think I had my child when I was 38. And I feel like I'm 48 now and I've still not recovered. So there is a difference is clearly going to be a difference in their experience of pregnancy and maternity and the physical, physiological and psychological impacts that it has at different stages in the life.
Laura Nwanya 32:23
I think as well. It's about the support network that that person has to Yeah, and this isn't to, you know, play the violin. So my husband and I, but I lost my mum when I was 21. And my dad was never really around. So I we don't have grandparents, my husband's again, he's dad isn't around and his mum lives in Nigeria. So she's not somebody, I see these families who have got both sets of grandparents, either side who come and do pickups or school drop offs, will have their children for the day, that was never an option for us. That needs to be considered as well, because a support network can make so much difference to how somebody is managing, I would worry now as a senior leader, if I knew that somebody was going off and having their first child and they didn't have their own parental support, that would be a massive impact. That's the thing for us to consider about how we support them return.
Angie Browne 33:26
And I think that's so helpful. Thank you for saying that. And I think that ability to have a conversation as a senior leader with people that you work with about, first of all, not rolling your eyes and think internally rolling your eyes and thinking how am I going to timetable for you to go off and as you do have that little bit of a panic,
Laura Nwanya 33:47
like we're all guilty of, you know, someone tells you you just didn't you can see your workload just going up. Yeah, just that little bit more than somebody else tells you something you like, and now it's going up. And you have to think life is more than just school and being in that workplace. Yeah. And if people people need to have those life experiences, but it is hard. It is to like you say not to have those gritted teeth. But congratulations.
Angie Browne 34:17
And once that past is to then be able to say to dig into if people want to with you, oh, how are you? Like what's your? What are your plans? What's your support look like? How are you and your partner going to get to work through this? If you're talking to single parents, what's their support network look like? How are they thinking about about managing this? The maternity action report is talking about people going back to work when the baby is three months old, because they can't afford to live people who are saying they have to take out loans to be able to manage those three months because then maternity the statutory maternity pay doesn't cover it. We've got people who are two months full pay four months half pay half pay isn't going to touch the side.
Laura Nwanya 34:58
I remember as well. was when I was, again, we were in a much. We were in such different financial positions what we were in now when I had Eden. And this sounds horrible, but I was so frustrated with another teacher, because they had six months full pay sick pay. And I was saying, but what I get I get four weeks is it four weeks or two weeks full pay and four weeks 90% going off on maternity, but if I'm off sick, if I was to go off sick, I would have had six months full pay. Remember it? Like I would never wish that an illness on anyone. But the frustration I felt because that was an it's a massive difference. Huge, huge difference.
Angie Browne 35:44
And it's interesting because people say pregnancy isn't an illness, which of course it isn't. Some people will experience a lot of pregnancy as an illness actually. So in its own its own right it isn't, but at the same time caring for a child. I don't understand why it's not renumerated at the same rate that you are being renumerated out anyway, I mean, it to me, it just doesn't it doesn't add up. I don't understand the way that it's arranged. Obviously, I live in Denmark now. And it isn't really conceivable that men don't take paternity leave. I mean, you can choose families or that can choose in Denmark, where I live, how they organise their time. So I know people were in heterosexual relationship where the man has taken off the three months or where Yeah, people have taken off, and it's divided up with that kind of discussion.
Laura Nwanya 36:33
We are getting better at that. Slow very, very slow of it again, just with the differences between Edom, my six year old and Mars, my one year old. My husband's work had gone from having one week full pay. And when we cough pay, you have in four weeks full pay. Okay was brilliant. Yeah, I think there was just within that six years. Yeah. Richard. Yeah. And one of the teachers who I was off with on maternity leave. Her husband worked with metta and had four months pay. And you could spread that four months out. So you could take a month. Yeah. But take a month to go back. There are companies doing it, there are people who are prepared. And they see the value in having that time off as a family is so important for bonding.
Angie Browne 37:25
Yeah, absolutely. And I think in education, we're overly obsessed with the idea that schools need that level of consistency, and that children can't cope with new teachers or adapt to new circumstances. And I think that that that shift in the way that we that we believe schools ought to be run and organised, needs to take place if we're going to be really helpful, humane for the people that work for us.
Laura Nwanya 37:48
If it keeps those teachers in position, and it retains them within those schools. It helps everyone it
Angie Browne 37:58
Yeah, yeah. So Family Friendly Schools, then beyond the sort of maternity leave period, beyond the initial return to work. How do you think schools can do more to ensure that parents in an ongoing basis can can be both parents and employees in schools?
Laura Nwanya 38:20
So I actually wrote a blog on this me about six weeks ago, I really had a couple of days of thinking, What does a family friendly school look like? What can I do as a senior leader to ease that other people as well? And I wrote a blog called Every Child Matters. But what about mine? When we go back to when I first started my teaching career, that was a huge, huge agenda about considering Every Child Matters. There is no child that we must forget about in our class, we need to make sure every single person is supported and making progress. But I felt like I was being asked to do that, but forgetting the needs of my own child, and what they have. I've heard some really good initiatives for schools. So one of the schools that I was at, they had a daycare on site for staff only. That meant that when I took Eden into the childcare setting, it was you know, a couple of 100 metres from my classroom, meant I had my colleagues looking after my child. It was incredible and often a prophet's organisation. It was a very reasonable price. And it meant that if there he was sick, I could get him really quickly. It would just, it alleviated so much, freshers with that that was an incredible initiative, and I know that at that school, I only really moved on from that for career progression myself. The VA, it keeps a lot of teachers in that school because, you know, it's it's an incredible facility to have heard of something as well called a soft start for teachers. So some schools allow their teachers for just one day a week to do that school drop off with their jobs, and then come into school a little bit later, they get to school about quarter past nine in the morning, maybe even nine o'clock, they've missed half an hour, then she'll miss too much of their learning. But it just gives that parent the opportunity to have a slower start with their child where they're not dropping them off at a breakfast club at 730 in the morning, in order to get to school for eight, or just building it into their PPA time anyway, yeah, there's some trust that that person is going to do their work. If they could take people away from home and do the school pickup even comes back to what I was saying earlier that I always feel that I miss out during the walks to and from school. I don't become part of the Parent Network. Eden will not get invited to after school tea parties and things if I don't have that relationship with the parents. I would love to offer that to my staff, I think yeah,
Angie Browne 41:18
it's it's so kind of amazing to me how I still find it. So heartbreaking to talk about this subject, like I can feel my body. I have such a lot of grief about not being able to take my child to school and about. I mean, basically, I look back on that period. He's 10. Now nearly, but I look back on those earlier years and think it feels full of stress rushing to get from here to there rushing to get him into bed rushing to get through the bath rushing to get him out of my hair, so I could work rushing to get him breakfast into him in the morning. It was all just
Laura Nwanya 41:59
I think I'm still guilty of that a little bit. I've although I'm more aware of well being and what that looks like I check in with myself when I've had moments like it. I'm still I still have bad days where I pick them up. And I'm rushing back and I'm rushing through the bath process and they want to tell me about something wonderful is happening, right? Yep. Okay, quick, right. John was on let's go Yeah, down, you get to sleep and they haven't find downtime properly. But I'm so desperate to get back onto my laptop. Because people are waiting for me to get work done so they can get other. It's all part of the jigsaw puzzle and it is running the school. But as stressful was termed time is it is a job that offers you that time. You're never too far away from a good week, where I feel that I put everything into my children during those days. We such nurturing and lovely experiences. Yeah, it balances itself out in the Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But in areas that guilt isn't there?
Angie Browne 43:06
I don't know how the impacts will be felt. And it even will be by him. But I just think it's sometimes I think we don't have an opportunity to experience that particular chapter of our life in the way that we might want to many of us
Laura Nwanya 43:21
if you work in a different field. Again, this happened I was offered the same time as a friend who's an accountant. So she works in a completely different industry. She had the whole year off, because she had six months full pay, six months half pay, but then she accrued her holiday. Yeah. So she went back after a year, but she was able to go back three days a week, but get paid full time salary. Yeah, first couple of months. And then she went back four days a week. Yeah, for a month. So she really eased her way back. Whilst going back to a full time pay. Yeah, that's something that frustrated me. There wasn't that week in in assists.
Angie Browne 44:08
Yeah. That the flexibility that's needed. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Laura. Thank you so much. I've loved this conversation. It's been really, really good. It's brought back a lot of memories.
Laura Nwanya 44:20
I can imagine.
Angie Browne 44:21
if people want to find you and your work. Yeah. How do they do that?
Laura Nwanya 44:25
So I have a Twitter handle. I'm not that great at it. As soon as you go back to work. It's hard to keep up with isn't it? But it's @being_willow.
Angie Browne 44:37
Okay. Yep. And we'll put that we'll put all of those details in the show notes as well. And you've got a podcast as well.
Laura Nwanya 44:44
Yeah, there's a link to a website, and some of my blogs and typically my podcasts have, it's all about supporting early careers, teachers, putting those boundaries in place at the beginning of your career so that you don't suffer that burnout at four/five years that a lot of teachers are experiencing,
Angie Browne 45:03
brilliant, okay, we'll put the details in the show notes. Laura, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast and I look forward to keeping in touch with you. Thanks so much for your time.
Laura Nwanya 45:12
Thank you.
Angie Browne 45:15
There are a whole host of awareness weeks and months that support this season's topic of pregnancy and maternity. The season goes out during women's history month and will fall on either side of International Women's Day, which this year will take place on Friday March the eighth. National Adoption week usually takes place in the second week of November. For 2024 it is likely to follow the same pattern. Baby Loss Awareness Week takes place in October every year. In 2024 it's likely to follow the same pattern and will culminate as ever in a wave of light. Black Maternal Health Month doesn't have a fixed date. But if it follows last year's pattern will take place at the end of September and the beginning of October 2024. National Fertility Awareness Week will take place at the end of October and the beginning of November 2024. And finally Menopause Awareness Month will take place during October 2024, with October the 18th recognised as World Menopause Awareness Day.
Angie Browne 46:19
This episode was presented by me Angie Browne. The series is edited by Big Tent Media and produced by Emily Crosby Media.